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Rushdie on Porn: "A Symbol of Civilisation"
posted by scubacuda on Wednesday August 11, @09:04AM
from the xxx:30-Porn-Star dept.
Censorship Telegraph India. Salman Rushdie's litmus test of what what makes a free society? It's tolerance to porn. In his upcoming essay (due this autumn), The East Is Blue, he writes:
Pornography exists everywhere, of course, but when it comes into societies in which it's difficult for young men and women to get together and do what young men and women often like doing, it satisfies a more general need...While doing so, it sometimes becomes a kind of standard-bearer for freedom, even civilisation.

(Side note: Democracy Now features a transcript of Rushie's speach at an event sponsored by the PEN American Center at Cooper Union in New York.)

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    Rushdie on Porn: "A Symbol of Civilisation" | Login/Create an Account | Top | 6 comments | Search Discussion
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    Then what does this say about the west? (Score:1)
    by thebaron on Wednesday August 11, @09:41AM (#1562)
    User #1032 Info | http://www.web-law.org/
    Hmmmm, now we all know what Rushdie is doing at home at night. Now hear ye all - if this is true then 'free' society has problems stored up. No,it probably is true. Free society does have immense problems stored. Porn and it's extension to Child Porn... is a huge....social....time bomb!The Baron
    Re:Then what does this say about the west? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 12, @06:01AM (#1564)
    Nice tactic there.
    Tying porn to child porn. Puts anyone that disagrees with you into the situation of advocating child porn, unless they're careful.

    Pornography is a complex subject. Normal pornography (a sweeping generalization i know) does not lead to chile pornography. That stems from a desire to see children in that kind of way. if you do not have that urge, then no pornography will instill it in you.

    As long as no-one is harmed (physically or mentally) in it's production, what right do you have to object to it? You are not forced to look at it.

    How is it a social timebomb? Explain yourself.
    Re:Then what does this say about the west? (Score:1)
    by thebaron on Friday August 13, @08:56AM (#1565)
    User #1032 Info | http://www.web-law.org/
    Thankyou for a well structured reply. Now if you're too harsh, you'll just look bad and automatically appear to be an advocator of child porn :)

    The below material contains some generalisations and stereotypes.

    1. Porn viewers view in private, at night, without their wives knowing. Why - if it's OK? I object because it twists the way males look at women - now, normal people (instead of men in overcoats going for the top shelf magazines risking bumping into someone they know) have an easy and constant diet of exciting themselves through porn. Will this have no effect on how they view life and interact with others, incl. women?

    2. The link between p and cp is indeed more difficult. Law prevents some migration. Many individuals draw a line themselves. But a high incidence of child abuse and child porn raises questions in the mind. Let's see - how old are the women posing? Some sites have disclaimers about the age of women used,i.e. over 18. Do they look that old? Rarely. How many sites exist including the phrase 'schoolgirls'? Why do their (web)masters make them look younger? And younger? And younger...? Because that's the demand. At what point does it become children, from girls, from women? Once we have a perverted viewpoint it's very difficult to lose it. And it's easier to progress to the next perverted viewpoint.

    3. It's a social time bomb because normal people have a constant easy diet of this stuff. It has to have an out. It leaves us with less personal dignity. Again - why is it done at night, in a separate room, in private, quickly turned off if someone comes into the door, ears pricked (oops - no pun intended) for noise of the wife coming...? In consequence, we have less control over ourselves, etc. etc. There was a movie - can't recall the title, where a group of people invited individuals for dinner and judged them worthy of life or death, then murdered them - but the self appointed judges became more and more dysfunctional.. its the same with this - that's why it's a social time bomb.

    4. I have three kids - can I allow them to have their own email? I mean what to they think pe*is enhancement size is? Maybe they should try this viagra? If,for business reasons, I have to have html email (the default anyway), my son could very easily accidentally see embedded pictures of the stronger types of porn - some sl*t prising apart her va*ina. Is this the world you want? This is a consequence of the wide availability of porn. But the web has become too important to prevent my children access - they have their homework involved, its the default way they communicate with their friends, etc. But they haven't fully developed their social values yet. Why should the web be such a dangerous place? I'm not 'forced to look at it', but I am forced to deal with it!

    Regards.The Baron
    Porn vs child porn (Score:1)
    by darkonc on Saturday August 14, @01:01PM (#1568)
    User #463 Info
    The boundary between porn and child porn is rather fuzzy... Technically, it's at 18, but you can find 15 year-olds that look 20 and 20 year-olds that look like they're 14. You can make a good argument for either of those being kiddie porn or not.

    In my mind, the crux of kiddie porn is the exploitation. That's the basic assumption -- that underage 'children' are very likely to be exploited. On the other hand, there are a lot of cases where the adults in regular porn are being exploited, too.

    There was a recent article on CBC radio about women from the former East Bloc attempting to emigrate, and finding themselves in sexual slavery.. abused both mentally and physically (mostly mentally). By the end of their time they're often hollow shells.

    They may be adults, but they're no less exploited than some of the 14 year olds that get into porn. On the other hand, there are some women (and possibly even children) who are quite happy to show off their bodies, have sex and even do it on camera. The question is: Which one are you looking at?

    Re:Porn vs child porn (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday August 14, @03:21PM (#1569)
    Finally, someone on this thread is talking some sense...rock on, darkonc

    It's not porn, per se. (Score:1)
    by darkonc on Wednesday August 11, @10:28AM (#1563)
    User #463 Info
    The freedom of a society is tested where it comes to being willing to allow ideas that are in possible conflict with that society. Images of the female body are taboo in the Muslim world. Other things are taboo elsewhere.

    In th US, it's things like economic heresy.. communist and socialist ideas are still suppressed to the point where most people don't even recognize them as possible thoughts.

    Consider how Microsoft and allies originally attacked Open Source as 'communist'. The response was to claim that it wasn't communist ("Companies are using it, so it can't be communist!"), rather than defending the communal nature of the movement.

    Nudity is also much maligned in large parts of North America (more in the US than in Canada) -- except when it is comercial in nature. It's really strange that (semi-nude) teenagers are completely appropriate for advertising, but breast feeding within sight of such advertising can get a mother arrested.

    Humanity has the stars in its future, and that future is too important to be lost under the burden of juvenile folly and ignorant superstition. - Isaac Asimov

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